Submerged Eclipse Playthrough
#11

I don't know if you read this post or if it got lost in between all the other replies, but I'm virtually pushing you toward that 4 star card audio huehuehuheuhueh

re: Bond
They also use "Covenant" here, and I'm pretty sure it's the first time they use the word, but it's also very apt.
It makes sense exactly for the reasons you mentioned, we tend to give to "bond" an emotional meaning, whereas "solemn and binding agreement" would be more apt.

As per what Lemurians get out of bonds, it's a bit ambiguous, and involves a few cards/texts you haven't read yet. This is not groundbreaking info that would break your immersion for those cards if you were to find out beforehand, by the way, but I'll try to say as much as I can without straight up spoilering the whole thing.

We have two layers of bonding that we know exist: bonding with love, bonding without love
Then two different recipients: Lemurian+Lemurian bonding, Lemurian+Human bonding.

Lemurian + Lemurian 
Bond with Love
It's basically our very romanticized version of marriage as it was conceptualized in romantic fantasy novels. Absolute and permanent devotion, commitment, attunement, etc.

Lemurian + Lemurian 
Bond without Love
Uhhhhh.... I don't think the game gives us examples of that.

Lemurian + Human
Bond with Love
Same as the L+L pair, but this one tends to have a power imbalance because the Human can literally command the Lemurian through the bond, and human emotions are much more fickle than a Lemurian's.

Lemurian + Human
Bond without Love
This is mentioned by Raf in the context of the Lemurian bonding with a human where the human is in love with the Lemurian but not the other way around. It's also entirely possible to have Lemurians bonded with love to humans who don't love them back.

Notice how we don't have examples of L+L pairs where the bond is without love, and all the L+H pairs explicit examples we have of bonds without love generally include unrequited love. One of the two always loves the other.
Which implies that bonds do involve love in some capacity, always, only that it's not necessarily a two-way street. A loving bond becomes so much stronger, of course, but whether the pair wants to tap into that depends on the couple. A sea god might have the interest of making the human fall head over heels in love so that when the time comes, the heart is so much more powerful. A human could have the interest of deceiving and taking advantage of a Lemurian in love with them so as to gain a loyal servant.

Abysswalker brings an interesting bit of backlore around bonds, because in that timeline Lemurians have a specific position in the social hierarchy, and it wouldn't make sense for them to be bonded with love to humans. How do they get bonded then? There's a "mechanical" way, let's say. One that is also referenced in Forgotten Sea, Submerged Eclipse and Fragrant Dream. And it's hinted at in a few other Raf's cards like Floral Promise.


Sea God's bond:
The eternal flame in Lemuria is powered by the Follower's heart. A heart that must be filled with devoted love for the Sea God. A bond would ensure that the human is properly swept off their feet, but of course there's the danger of being commanded by them. Why leave that loophole? 
Either we can think that the writers wanted to make things angsty, so here it is, or we can reference back the Tome and its prophecy.
The Sea God has to find their true love (implies that the Sea God will also fall in love), and in order to gain their full power, they need the staff (MC has it), the trident (requires the trial at the tomb), the heart (filled with love), and a pearl.
That pearl is most likely the tear that slides down Raf's face and then falls into the ocean. 
Whether it's because the flame eats emotions or whatever, the prophecy wants both parties in love and then wants the Sea God to cry after killing their beloved.

We can guess the command side-effects is there to ensure that the Lemurian thinks very carefully about who they bond with, or it can be a consequence of humans' nature. Where in L+L the bond and the inner commands ensure that they both can take care of each other, in L+H this changes because H can fall out of love and are much greedier. So it's not intended, but if a human is bonded to a Lemurian, the Lemurian is at a disadvantage.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I enjoy the double amnesia trope they used in this myth, because finally, FINALLY, we get a story where MC and the LI are truly on the same page. They both don't remember each other, they both find out about their past together, and together they develop feelings. In all the other timelines MC is the one who has to catch up to the LI's feelings, chasing a past version of herself to the point where some fans speculate that the LI is actually in love with her former self and is simply replacing that lost lover with present MC.
In this one there's nothing of that because Raf recognizes the bond and straight up says "It's in the past, it has nothing to do with us"

Love that.


[Image: abyssw-alker-v0-wx0feo9sd3yod500x100.jpg]
Time goes by but memories rewind
#12

i read alllll the posts! what i remember out of them is up for grabs though. the weekend is coming, i was going to go through all the new cards I got then, as well as the Abysswalker myth and THEN i was going to go back to pick up Lucid Dreams. just so you're vaguely aware of my lore acquisition timeline.

re/bonding etc - yeah, i grok that. one guesses that the original 'contract' was meant to be strictly between Lemurians, where the devotion is nearly forced to go both ways because they wouldn't bond without a compelling reason to do so (ie, love everlasting). its the human-lemurian thing that's tricky, because while the gains are potentially much, much higher, the risk is commensurately greater if you don't pick the right human and/or don't Sacrifice them fast enough and/or you fall in love with them and don't want to take the last step anymore.

bear with me here on a small journey of what if - can a Lemurian do the bond thing over and over and over again with many humans, gaining a little power each time from squeezing out small amounts of caring from each one over a very long lifespan? basically reducing the risk to its bare minimum and Sacrificing faster for less reward, but accumulating gains over time?

and yas, the double-amnesia (or reincarnation blindness + i've been asleep too long to remember my own name barely) was great! yes, you're supposed to fall in love with me at least and aren't i just so charming with my wily siren ways to make that pill go down a little easier, but don't expect me to reciprocate, that's just a silly human thing. and if you don't fall in love, i kill you anyways and take your city with me, so chop chop honeybunch.


#13

What if 

Damn you foreshadowing

"can a Lemurian do the bond thing over and over and over again with many humans"
In theory, I guess. But everything we know about Lemurians is that their bond is a once per lifetime kind of thing. They mate/bond for life it seems.
Raf does say "Bonds can change" but I think it's either to avoid putting pressure on MC, or because as a Sea God he technically has the power to severe a bond


[Image: abyssw-alker-v0-wx0feo9sd3yod500x100.jpg]
Time goes by but memories rewind
#14

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH on the jewelry box! if Rafayel had been captured / tortured by Ever at some point which was alluded to obliquely a few places, they absolutely would have stripped him of that ring. That's... that's big, IF TRUE.

... still kind of wonder if some sociopathic lemurian is out there spinning the Wheel of Human Fate for his late night heart snacks. but fine, i guess we can go with the prevailing theory that its One Per Customer.


#15

Oh do not doubt that sociopathic lemurian collecting bonds and slowly rising the social hierarchy that way is canon in my head and in my heart. Somewhere, in this multiverse, there's a dark!Raf who got his full power sacrificing MC, waits for her to reincarnate, and does it again just to see if he somehow doubles his god coins.


[Image: abyssw-alker-v0-wx0feo9sd3yod500x100.jpg]
Time goes by but memories rewind


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